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Anti-PC League

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Day By Day© by Chris Muir.


Sunday, November 06, 2005

Liberal Canadians and Conservative Americans

I have an admission, I'm an addict. That's right, I'm addicted..to arguing with moonbats on message boards.

It's really the ultimate exercise in futility. They'll never listen, never change their minds, never admit when someone else is right (that's a natural human trait). They have too much invested in their ideological theories, Not to mention in recent years, conservatives have become synonymous with evil, with George W. Bush being the root of all evil.

I think this addiction stems from the days when I was a fundie Christian. Yup, that's an admission too. I even spent a semester in Bible School. I used to spend hours on the doorstep arguing religion with the local Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses, to the point that the latter only sent their Elders to my doorstep, then they stopped coming altogether.

To be physically healthy, one has to work their bodies and put their muscles under stress, to keep your mind sharp, you have to work it too. For me that involves reading and healthy amounts of debate with those whose views are opposite of mine. Plus I find it fun and challenging. In this cycle of political polarization, it's easy to find a good debate online.

Anyways, on a message board I frequent, there is a discussion of Peter Schweizer's new book going on. Inevitably, as a political discussion with fringe-lefties is bound to do these days, their only retort to the facts in the book comes down to, "so what if Democrats don't practice what they preach, BUSH IS EVIL!!!" To which I try to stay on subject, and eventually they pull out the moral equivalency card and to them the debate becomes (and I'm paraphrasing), "those liberals in the book are just doing the same thing as Republicans; Bush is EVIL!!!"

I explain that it's a matter of hypocrisy. That the liberals in the book are telling America that capitalism and the desire to keep the fruits of one's labor is wrong, yet they themselves do it.

So the discussion goes on, and eventually one of the other liberals starts to pipe in. This particular liberal isn't your normal American lefty, but a liberal from the Great White North, and is thoroughly convinced of the superiority of the Socialist ideology of Canada. Not only that, but I've debated him before, and he is deeply ingrained in the 'victim mentality', meaning that he takes personal offense at any argument made against his ideology and whines about it. Already this post is getting too long to quote all of it, but here is the major part of his argument:

Liberals are infuriated at tax dollars being handed over to those who need it least: corporations, political cronies, and special interest groups like the most wealthy in the form of "tax rebates." Not to mention waging questionable wars where not only American tax dollars are being spent, but American blood is being spilled.

A society is not judged by how well their elite are treated, but by how well they care for those who are the most vulnerable and who actually need help because they can't help themselves. The "every man for himself - screw the poor and powerless" philosophy is nothing but barbarism.

To which I replied:

"Liberal politicians talk about the immorality of this, yet are very guilty of it themselves, as the book reveals. These people are essentially scamming the average left-of-center American and making money off of them rather than earning it honestly (as in selling a product or service). They are essentially "snake-oil salesmen".

I find it tragic you complain about "tax rebates" for the "most wealthy" (which is bunk, I got a rebate too), but you don't seem to give a damn about whether it was money that was theirs in the first place. Tax money belongs to the individuals it is taken from, it doesn't belong to the government, "society" or anyone else but the individual who produced it.

A rising tide lifts all ships. Wealth is
created in a free-market, not taken."

He of course began to lecture me about how bad the Republicans and Bush are, and how they are not doing more to "make the world truly a better place for everyone".

Now I try to keep the discussion on track, which is the discussion of the book, but I also use the occasion to bring forth the basic principles of conservative economic beliefs:

"You are so consumed with hate over one man (who's doesn't even run your country) that you haven't even paid attention to the points I make. The Republicans are far from perfect, I will tell you that, but there are far more people in that party that still believe in free-market economies, which is where liberty comes from.

Looking for angels in the halls of any government is foolish. Humans have the capacity to do good and evil, and often confuse the two. The trick for us as voters is to find the man to which will serve our best interests. While Reagan-conservatives in the GOP try to pass laws allowing everyone to freely engage in wealth-building, the Dems try to punish it (through progressive tax rates), yet the Dems themselves are engaged in it! They have essentially said, "it's alright for us to get rich, but not you."

It is not the government's job to provide happiness and comfort. It is not the job of government to "make the world a better place". That is up to the individual. The government does not generate wealth, it can only limit or redistribute wealth. People can only claim "economic rights" by taking the rights of others. So when one has the "right" to "free" healthcare, it is because they have trampled on the rights of others by forcing them to pay for and provide it. That isn't liberty, that's slavery."


Now in the quote by him above, I omitted his last statement, which was this little gem:

(By the way, my country, Canada, hit a thirty-year low in unemployment recently. We're also enjoying a federal budget surplus, have universal medical care, a public school system that works, and aren't in a quagmire of a war based on lies. And we have a liberal government! Funny how things work out.)
In case your wondering, Canada's 30-year low is a whopping high (by U.S. standards) 6.6 percent. Oh boy, I couldn't let this one go:

Dude, how can you brag about 6.6% unemployment when the US is currently at 5%? The US hasn't had unemployment that high since the 90's (Febuary 1994 to be exact). That's right, your liberal government celebrates a unemployment rate that in the US is a terrible recession. Actually many Canadians don't see it like you do. Your government is still corrupt (where politicians take $1 million trips to Iceland on the taxpayer's wallet) and Canada's healthcare system isn't what it's made out to be.

Bam! Right there any person who values facts over rhetoric in a debate would see that in this case, free-market conservatism is out-performing socialist-influenced liberalism. Not this guy though:

So, would you rather be poor in the US or in Canada? We in Canada have that funny philosophy that the way to make a strong country is to strengthen ALL our citizens rather than just put all our resources on pampering a small elite at the expense of everyone else.

The "many people in Canada who disagree" with saying we're doing well to have a budget surplus in Canada, record low unemployment levels, universal healthcare, a solid public school system, and NO quagmire war are those people who voted for the Canadian Alliance/Reform/Conservative party -- they're the ones who have consistently failed to win the elections we've had over the past few years.

And Canadian conservatives are more left-leaning than America's Democrats. Hmmm.

By the way, what do you think about the international reputation of Canada and Canadians? How does it compare to the international reputation of the US?
I was almost on the floor laughing. Now I know of some great Canadians who are fine people with good ideas (two of whom I've linked to in this post), but this is rich. Not only did he completely ignore my point, but he also tried to reinforce the moral superiority of Canada, as if they don't have their problems too.

Nonetheless, I must continue to drive home my point, and this is the reason why I'm posting this argument here, because I want to stress to all of you out there who have forgotten about the core principles of American economic conservatism during this time of war, as valued by people like Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand. I admit I might've gotten too rough with the Canada-bashing (I apologize to our Canadian friends out there), but here is my reply:

"I'd rather be in a country where I don't have to work harder so I can keep enough money for myself because I'm forced to pay for someone else who refuses to work. Hell, you might as well cut out the middle-man, I'll stop by around 2 pm your time and we can hash out what property you have and I don't, I'll take the difference and we'll both be happy right? That's what your advocating, which is little more than government-enforced looting. BTW I rather not be poor anywhere, I'd rather be responsible for myself and make my own wealth, and if I fail at that, it is no one else's fault but mine.

Do you realize what a budget surplus is? It's the government taking more money from the taxpayer than it knows what to do with! Yet you seem to find pride in that....what passes for record low-unemployment in Canada is a deep recession for the US. Your like a kid who brags about having 3 pieces of candy instead of 2 to a kid with 5 pieces of candy! Again, as the link I posted before attested to, your health care system sucks, and it infringes on the right of the individual, therefore making it immoral. BTW is 2pm too early for you? I can stop by later if you want. BTW do you have an iPod? Palm Pilot maybe?

No one calls Canada when the shit hits the fan, they call us."

Again, I got a little liberal (*heh heh*) with what could be interpreted as "Canada-bashing". Don't gloss over the points though. American conservatism has been about these principles since Ronald Reagan rescued this country from the disaster that was (and still is) Jimmy Carter. I think in this time in our history it is too easy to for get that. We are about fiscal freedom and the ability of anyone to work their way into success without being punished or made to feel guilty.

In many ways, Ronald Reagan was our John Galt. I think that we should not forget the principles of either man.